How will the position groups look after the draft and FA? - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

JoeSixPat · 04-10-2011, 12:32 PM

I'm not sure whether anyone's brought this up, but depending on how long the lockout continues that could potentially impact the ability a rookie or free agent has to become integrated in the scheme and system.

Presumably that would give guys currently signed an edge as starters, assuming we have a significantly shortened off-season. Either that or Belichick may "dumb down" what can sometimes be complicated schemes for newbies as they learn the ropes.

Just one of many ways that an atypical offseason can affect the season. Of course, with a few exceptions, the Patriots are better positioned than many teams as they already have their core players.

Dufflebagz · 04-10-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

DEs dont 'set the edge' they play head up on the OT in our system.

You're right, poor attempt at trying to use some terminoligy that I see on here. By your explenation setting the edge seems to be the same as a contain player (I can't believe I couldn't figure that out myself), which would be the OLB in the 3-4.

Let me try again using terminoligy I know.

If we draft a DE who can handle his gap responsibilities (mainly OT), it would lessen the need for an OLB.

***AndyJohnson*** · 04-10-2011, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dufflebagz

You're right, poor attempt at trying to use some terminoligy that I see on here. By your explenation setting the edge seems to be the same as a contain player (I can't believe I couldn't figure that out myself), which would be the OLB in the 3-4.

Let me try again using terminoligy I know.

If we draft a DE who can handle his gap responsibilities (mainly OT), it would lessen the need for an OLB.

I get your point. And of course if you put better players next to anyone it lessens the need to upgrade. But the OLB in our system is a unique and very critical position.
They need to play 2 gap run defense, although I think we have never really struggled to find a bunch of guys who could do an OK job at that.
There is a bit of a coverage responsibility, but it is very limited.
However, the OLBs in the 34 base are also, almost always, DE in the sub package and our primary pass rushers.
This is where the uniqueness of the spot becomes critical, because they really need to do all of those things, or we need to have a lot of depth.
I see Cunningham as a fixture who will be there a long time. Last year, surprisingly he played a lot more in the base than in the sub packages, which is really interesting because he was a college 43 DE. IMO, that bodes well for his transition, and I expect a good season from him, with many to follow. He is, IMO, the real deal.
As of now on the other side we have Ninkovich and TBC. Adding a high pick, particularly one who can get the majority of his reps in sub packages would give us a solid 4 man rotation, IMO.

As far as DE, I expect Warren to be back, and he has been solid his entire career. I am encouraged by Brace, although cant understand why he was used so sparingly last year when I thought he looked very good, and Stroud is a good addition who fits the scheme, IMO. With Deaderick, Wright, Pryor and GWarren if he returns we aren't in deep trouble here, but it would be a nice spot to add to.
A high pick run stopper could work his way in, much as Warren did as a rookie, and can develop if Warren, Brace and Stroud are all 100% next year, and carve a bigger role if they are not.
Of course, the ideal would be a guy who can be a run stopper as well as having the ability to play off of 2 gap technique and get a pass rush in the base (a very tough skill to find) as well as rush from the DT spot on 3rd down.
I would welcome a high pick here, but I also could be OK with what we have for 2011 if the draft falls to being able to get better players in other need areas as well.

Dufflebagz · 04-10-2011, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

I get your point. And of course if you put better players next to anyone it lessens the need to upgrade. But the OLB in our system is a unique and very critical position.
They need to play 2 gap run defense, although I think we have never really struggled to find a bunch of guys who could do an OK job at that.
There is a bit of a coverage responsibility, but it is very limited.
However, the OLBs in the 34 base are also, almost always, DE in the sub package and our primary pass rushers.
This is where the uniqueness of the spot becomes critical, because they really need to do all of those things, or we need to have a lot of depth.
I see Cunningham as a fixture who will be there a long time. Last year, surprisingly he played a lot more in the base than in the sub packages, which is really interesting because he was a college 43 DE. IMO, that bodes well for his transition, and I expect a good season from him, with many to follow. He is, IMO, the real deal.
As of now on the other side we have Ninkovich and TBC. Adding a high pick, particularly one who can get the majority of his reps in sub packages would give us a solid 4 man rotation, IMO.

As far as DE, I expect Warren to be back, and he has been solid his entire career. I am encouraged by Brace, although cant understand why he was used so sparingly last year when I thought he looked very good, and Stroud is a good addition who fits the scheme, IMO. With Deaderick, Wright, Pryor and GWarren if he returns we aren't in deep trouble here, but it would be a nice spot to add to.
A high pick run stopper could work his way in, much as Warren did as a rookie, and can develop if Warren, Brace and Stroud are all 100% next year, and carve a bigger role if they are not.
Of course, the ideal would be a guy who can be a run stopper as well as having the ability to play off of 2 gap technique and get a pass rush in the base (a very tough skill to find) as well as rush from the DT spot on 3rd down.
I would welcome a high pick here, but I also could be OK with what we have for 2011 if the draft falls to being able to get better players in other need areas as well.

I'm in no way against taking an OLB in the 1st round, even trading up for one is enticing. I believe that OLB is the most important position in the 3-4 (I know many arguments can be made though), it's rare to find a player who can not only handle, but excel at the multiple responsibilities an OLB has.

I'm not 100% sure Ty Warren will be back next season and if he is, can we depend on him? I like Brace also, when he was on the field he was very effective and I can't wait to see more of him. Wright and G. Warren are two big question marks for me. Wright seemed like he'd be out for a couple weeks and we never saw him again, who knows whats really going on with him. G. Warren is obviously on the bubble, especially if we draft multiple DE's in the draft. I agree that we have good depth at DE though.