Bill B.

Can anyone tell me where I can find the statitics for roughing the passer calls. Specifically what teams get the most calls in their favor and what teams get the most calls against them. I have been having a discussion at work with fans of other teams and they keep telling me the NFL protects QBs like Manning and Brady. I have seen every single Patriot game since Brady started and I just don't see it. He takes a lot of hits. This year I think I have only seen it called a couple of times in favor of Brady. I don't think they protect Brady any more or less than other QBs but would like some stats to back me up.

This all goes back to the Ravens game last year when Suggs tried to take out Brady's knee and got called for it. He and Lewis started whining about it as they usually do when they lose. It's amazing that people can look at one play and say Brady gets over protected.

Timbo717

Well, I haven't found any good source on definitive stats on this.

Advanced NFL Stats: 'Touching' the Passer and Belichick on 4th Down

That is just one story, but doesn't include 2009 where I believe I had read that Brady had the most roughing the passer calls, but not by a lot. The numbers in this story show reasonable fairness, although I'm not sure of their source.

On another note, it's tough to just look at these stats and judge if the perceived favoritism exists as other fanbases think it does. For one, you would have to go back and include calls such as the one against Wright in that game that was called for unneccessary roughness and not roughing the passer even though it was because his hand brushed Flacco's mask.(IIRC)

A more subjective issue is the quality of the hits that are drawing the calls and how the OL play affects the number of calls. If you have a crappy OL and you get hit 15 times a game, in theory you are more likely to get a higher QUANTITY of roughing the passer calls than the guy who has a phenomenal offensive line and only gets hit three or four times a game. Having more calls doesn't necessarily mean the refs favor you, it might just mean that there are more opportunities for these penalties to happen.

Think of it in terms of comparing offensive penalties between two teams in a game. If your team holds the ball for 3/4 of the game, your team (on average) MAY have a higher QUANTITY of penalties, but it doesn't mean they weren't deserved.

I think the whole favoritism theory is a little overblown because veteran guys like Manning and Brady are shown on TV as being more vocal in talking to the refs than a young QB like Matt Ryan or Colt McCoy might be. It's almost impossible to prove unless you see refs come out and confirm it.

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jmt57

I did a quick search and could not find anything. My suggestion would be to ask Mike Reiss or someone else like him that does a weekly mailbag of questions. The reason I suggest Reiss is that he works for espn, and that organization probably has better resources than any other for researching those kind of statistics.


I'm assuming your co-workers are concluding that Brady gets favoritism based on (a) the often replayed penalties from the Ravens game in early 2009, (b) the relatively low number of sacks he has taken, and (c) they are jealous fans of other teams trying to get under your skin. Until you get those stats, a few ideas for you to respond with; basically, I would challenge them to show a correlation between the raw number of roughing the passer penalties and favoritism from referees (and their implying that equates to favoritism from the NFL.)

First, let's remove Brady from the conversation for a moment. Joe Montana was a great NFL quarterback. He took very few sacks; does that mean the refs were favoring him by not calling holding on his offensive line? No, of course not; what it means is that his offensive line was adept at pass blocking, Montana made good reads, he slid in the pocket well to avoid the pass rush, and he had a quick release. You can't jump to the conclusion that refs favored Montana; similarly you can't jump to the conclusion that refs favor Brady.

Second, let's talk about pocket presence and how that relates to getting hit. The best NFL quarterbacks have much better awareness in the pocket; that in turn results in them getting rid of the ball in a more timely manner than quarterbacks that don't have that sense, that end up taking huge hits. Those big hits are more likely going to draw a flag, so QBs like Jason Campbell and Chad Henne and Joey Harrington are probably going to draw more RTP flags, and have a higher percentage of RTP penalties.

If you look at year by year fumble leaders you see a correlation between guys who either have poor pocket presence or make poor decisions with the ball most often leading the league in fumbles; those same guys are going to get hit more often, and draw more RTP flags.

There is this study from a couple years ago that was done right after opposing fans were convinced Brady was the beneficiary of favoritism after that Ravens game. The conclusion was that marquee quarterbacks do not receive favoritism; Brady was among the top five in receiving RTP flags only once in five years.
Smarter Stats: The Brady Rule Effect - The League at washingtonpost.com

Also, if you are debating the topic with a Ravens fan, the follow up column shows the Ravens were not among the most penalized for RTP penalties over the five years of that study:
Smarter Stats: QB Protection Nothing New - The League at washingtonpost.com

Now if somebody says something about percentage of RTP flags per sack, I would respond that there is no correlation between the two that would lead to concluding favoritism. Again, the better quarterbacks avoid sacks and big hits; the ones that are not as smart take too many sacks, lots of big hits - and more big hits equals more RTP flags.

One last thing regarding the offensive line and protection: through the Bears game Brady has been sacked 21 times and has taken 41 hits this year. With that small a number of times of being hit, I seriously doubt the Pats have benefited from very many roughing the passer penalties this year.
Brady Avoiding The Big Hits - Mike Reiss - espnBoston

Of course if you mention that, your friends will simply move the goal posts and say that is "proof" the refs favor Brady by permitting the Pats o-line to hold.

Timbo717

This is a great point and I've seen people try to point to the low numbers of sacks of Brady and Manning as proof when, as jmt57 points out, it's somewhat irrellevant.

He also makes a good point that most of those people will just turn onto the lack of holding penalties and say that's why he doesn't take sacks, another favoritism theory that is virtually impossible to prove or disprove.

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sieglo

I would love to see this analysis as well as the flip-side: teams most penalized for roughing the passer.

I'd also like to see a similar statistical analysis of pass interference calls, so we can justify our belief that Manning and the Colts benefit more than any other team in the league.

wy125

Bill B.,

I asked myself the very same question about who gets the most calls (also after hearing Suggs and Lewis crying). It's taken me a while to find the raw data and then get it processed. I managed to find data here: Advanced NFL Stats: Play-by-Play Data. It's interesting that Suggs' favorite QB, Drew Brees, has the second most calls. If anyone is interested I'll work on the pass interference calls.

Here are the results (sorry about the formatting) for the 2010 Season:

Total # of Roughing the Passer Calls: 78

Roughing the Passer by Team Penalized

Rank Team ROP Count
1 SF 5
1 PIT 5
2 CHI 4
2 KC 4
2 DAL 4
2 NYG 4
2 DET 4
2 MIN 4
3 STL 3
3 PHI 3
3 TEN 3
3 CIN 3
3 ARI 3
3 CLE 3
4 HOU 2
4 MIA 2
4 NYJ 2
4 SEA 2
4 OAK 2
4 BAL 2
4 TB 2
4 ATL 2
4 NE 2
4 DEN 2
5 NO 1
5 WAS 1
5 CAR 1
5 SD 1
5 IND 1
5 GB 1
6 BUF 0
6 JAC 0
=========
Total: 78

Roughing the Passer by QB

Rank QB Team ROP Count
1 Sam Bradford STL 6
2 Carson Palmer CIN 4
2 Drew Brees NO 4
2 Jay Cutler CHI 4
3 Michael Vick PHI 3
3 Ryan Fitzpatrick BUF 3
3 Kyle Orton DEN 3
3 Jason Campbell OAK 3
3 Donovan McNabb WAS 3
3 Jimmy Clausen CAR 3
3 Shaun Hill DET 3
4 Matt Cassel KC 2
4 Jon Kitna DAL 2
4 Kerry Collins TEN 2
4 Mark Sanchez NYJ 2
4 Derek Anderson ARI 2
4 Chad Henne MIA 2
4 Matt Ryan ATL 2
4 Aaron Rodgers GB 2
4 Bruce Gradkowski OAK 2
4 Jake Delhomme CLE 2
4 Troy Smith SF 2
5 Eli Manning NYG 1
5 Brett Favre MIN 1
5 Matt Schaub HOU 1
5 Matt Hasselbeck SEA 1
5 Alex Smith SF 1
5 Philip Rivers SD 1
5 Tom Brady NE 1
5 Colt McCoy CLE 1
5 Matt Stafford DET 1
5 Matt Moore CAR 1
5 Todd Collins CHI 1
5 Tony Pike CAR 1
5 Rex Grossman WAS 1
5 Tavaris Jackson MIN 1
5 Charlie Whitehurst SEA 1
5 Joe Webb MIN 1
5 Brian Hoyer NE 1
6 Joe Flacco BAL 0
6 Josh Freeman TB 0
6 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 0
6 Peyton Manning IND 0
6 David Garrard JAC 0

=====================
Total: 78

wy125

Here's the pass interference summary for the 2010 season (note: I changed the ranking system so that ties count as a spot):

By Passing QB

Rank QB # PI
1 Joe Flacco 13
2 Matt Ryan 11
3 Carson Palmer 10
4 Kyle Orton 9
4 Eli Manning 9
4 Matt Schaub 9
4 Josh Freeman 9
8 Jay Cutler 8
8 Peyton Manning 8
10 Chad Henne 7
10 Brett Favre 7
10 Tom Brady 7
13 Matt Cassel 6
13 Mark Sanchez 6
15 Drew Brees 5
16 Sam Bradford 4
16 Derek Anderson 4
16 Alex Smith 4
16 Philip Rivers 4
20 Jason Campbell 3
20 Donovan McNabb 3
20 Jimmy Clausen 3
20 Kerry Collins 3
20 Aaron Rodgers 3
20 Matt Hasselbeck 3
20 Matt Moore 3
20 Ben Roethlisberger 3
20 David Garrard 3
29 Michael Vick 2
29 Ryan Fitzpatrick 2
29 Bruce Gradkowski 2
29 Troy Smith 2
29 Joe Webb 2
34 Jake Delhomme 1
34 Colt McCoy 1
34 Matt Stafford 1
34 Rex Grossman 1
34 Tavaris Jackson 1
39 Shaun Hill 0
39 Jon Kitna 0
39 Todd Collins 0
39 Tony Pike 0
39 Charlie Whitehurst 0
39 Brian Hoyer 0


By Offending Team

Rank Team # PI
1 OAK 14
2 DAL 11
2 ARI 11
2 CAR 11
5 PIT 10
5 NYJ 10
5 NE 10
8 DEN 9
8 NO 9
10 DET 8
10 TEN 8
12 PHI 7
12 CIN 7
12 SD 7
12 GB 7
12 BUF 7
17 HOU 6
17 ATL 6
19 SF 5
19 KC 5
19 CLE 5
19 BAL 5
19 IND 5
24 CHI 4
24 STL 4
24 SEA 4
24 TB 4
24 JAC 4
29 NYG 3
30 MIN 2
30 MIA 2
30 WAS 2

PATSYLICIOUS

Seriously I was just thinking of making this thread the other day. I could've sworn the only time I can remember ROP called for Brady were the 2 against Baltimore last year and wanted to see where we stacked up.

I take it the #'s above are from this season since Bradford is on there... but yeah to see Brady and Manning both on the lower half should pretty much put an end to this BS myth that they are getting the special treatment here, it's all QB's. Thanks for posting the info.

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wy125

Yeah, the stats are from this season. It would be interesting to see what the numbers from last season look like. Also it might be worth throwing in a 'per passing attempt' column. I'll work on it tonight if I get some time.

Koma

wy125, Thanks for putting the effort on that. As Chris Russo would say, "That's a good job outta you."