AzPatsFan

I am amazed that Patriot fans here on these boards ares starting to buy in to the biggest baloney that I have ever heard. It is getting repeated so much that even we fans who ought to KNOW BETTER are starting to begrudgingly say the same nonsense in our posts.

The best example of this phenomenon are the Bolts and Colts.
The NONSENSE is that these teams have MORE TALENTED players.

Just because the Bolts let two loudmouth OLBs, ignore the run, ignore the pass in the flat, and madly rush the QB and manage between the two of them to get a dozen or more sacks for each of them, we say they are better than the OLBs playing for the Patriots. Nothing but Freeneys!

The Patriots OLBs are only allowed to play fundamental defensive football. They are coached to read-and-react, check the run, check the flat pass and screen, and only then rush the passer. Three guys split the assignments and so each end up with a half dozen or so sacks, but the defensive PR is 66 and the Running defense is 3.5 YPC.

Why do you sophisticated fans buy in to the idea the asses playing selfish OLB for the Bolts are better? They aren't !!!

I maintain its harder to play fundamental defense and stop the run and pass and still get a half dozen sacks apiece for the season, than to get gaudy and meaningless sacks when you yield a PR of 77, and a 4.2 YPC rushing average.

Another example. The Colts have great WRs. But if you look at their stats Wayne 95, and Harrison 86, got all but a small handful (< 10) of the WR catches.

For the Pats six WRs split the receptions, making the Pats have great depth, the possibility of a breakout by a new guy like Jabbar Gaffney, and have the ability to withstand injury. Its the Patriot system under Belichick.

Are the Colts receivers all that much better? Or do they simply play in a system that gives them essentially ALL the WR receptions and inflate their statistics?

I pointed out that Red Auerbach never had a single player in the top ten in scoring in the NBA. But he did have 12 in the balance of top forty. Spread it around. No single injury save Russell could prevent their winning 11 in 13. (Russel WAS hurt in the single other year.) If a Sam Jones has an off night, or someone was in foul trouble, any one of the others could pick up and take over the scoring. The machine rolls on. Red and Bill use the same strategy.

You guys should KNOW BETTER. The Belichick system minimizes startling and gaudy stats for the good of T-E-A-M and depth. Don't buy into the idea that other Teams have "better talent". Its mostly bunk!

Oswlek

1) NE players are read and react when that is their responsibility in the play call. There are plenty of times that NE LBs and DLs rush the passer without considering the run. While I feel that you are minimizing the talent that Phillips and Merriman do have, I do agree with you that people will gravitate to, and exaggerate the importance of certain individual statistics.

2) Wayne and Harrison are most certainly better than anyone NE has trotted out there this season. If anything the fact that they dominate the catches compared to their NE counterparts is evidence of this. Don't overlook the fact that Indy has been missing Stokely and Clark for much of the season, which increases the focus on Wayne and Harrison.

I think what you are saying is that individual statistics are lousy predictors of team success. I agree wholeheartedly with that point. I also agree with the fact that NE has done a better job of spreading talent throughout their roster than any other team in the league.

I do think that, in trying to make those points, you minimized the ability of NE's opponents though.

hwc

Uhhh. Yes.

IMO, Marvin Harrison is the best wide receiver in the NFL. Have you watched him play? He is amazing.

Defenders can know exactly what route he's running and they can't stop him.

Fanfrom1960

Good post and a way of looking at it that I don't think I've seen. About the Celtics, I would like to point out that, maybe he didn't have any leaders in scoring, but Red had about seven hall of famers on those teams, eight if you include him. They didn't all play together, as Cousy and Sharman were replaced by Sam and KC (no relation) Jones, and Ramsey and Havlicek didn't overlap much. Interesting that the Patriots dynasty will probably put less people in the hall of fame than any of the prior ones: Browns, Packers, Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys. Is that because of the salary cap, or Belichick genius? Probably some of each.

AzPatsFan

Sam Jones was a scorer. If Red wanted him to shoot, shoot and shoot some more, he could have averaged in the forties every game.

Red didn't want that and Sam was enough of a TEAM player to play with in the parameters that Red wanted. It wasn't until the talent elsewhere declined, that Hondo was unleashed. For years he "invented" the "sixth man" and embodied that position.

shirtsleeve

Amen.

But to discredit their starting WR's is not altogether fair. Granted, TB's fovorite receiver is the (semi) open one, but with those two starting, our team could score 42, at will, every game. With those two, who do you cover in our offense????? The TE's and Faulk would eat every defense for breakfast if they focused on those two. If they didn't, those two would be in the end zone on every possession.

But you have our team exactly right.

unoriginal

Your OLB point is strong, because Rosy Colvin was clearly the best outside linebacker, or perhaps just linebacker, on that field. His side of the field was on lockdown, plus he made a great play on Rivers' pass. That and both San Diego OLB's were/got injured.

Harrison and Wayne, however, are no joke. They have been doing what they do for a long, long time. If they were pretenders the league would have figured them out by now.

Fogbuster

You go, dude. That's EXACTLY the difference between a *TEAM* that wins and wins *CONSISTENTLY* and those who flash for a season or two, then disintegrate when their superstars have a bad year -- or drive their motorcycles into cars in the off-season.

I'll take the BB-Auerbach approach every time. I like winning, and I don't care who gets the final shot as long as it goes in.

AzPatsFan

I purposely chose that comparison with the Colts WRs for a reason. To generate some startled controversy and stimulate some thinking.

There's two of them, as WRs in Indy, (yes Stokley is injured; Gabriel is gone!)not a half dozen as the Pats used. They have been good for a long time; do you think that Caldwell & Gaffney will be better, when they have played with Brady for three or five more years, like the (fading?) dynamic duo in Coltsland?

hwc

No.

As I said, Marvin Harrison is the best WR in the NFL and one of the best WR to ever play the game. He's that good. He makes Peyton Manning look that good.