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Old 10-16-2006, 12:59 PM   #1
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Default Idle thoughts

This thread originally started to be a response to a post by RIP, who opined that the WRs, by and large, should be up to speed by now, and the reason they are not open is due to the fact they... to put it bluntly...suck. (though RIP was much more diplomatic. ) However while I responded I started to wonder whether the complex passing attack that ALL the teams in the NFL use, where both QB & receivers read the defense, and often change their routes on the fly, is actually the best way to attack all the complex and hidden defenses that current NFL offenses are exposed to.

1. Here is my opinion on RIP's thought that the its basically the fact that our WRs aren't good enough to get open:

The more sophisticated the camera work becomes, the more it becomes clearer, even to the casual fan, how DIFFICULT the passing game has become.

On most passes the QB is throwing the ball WELL before the WR is making his break. He is RELYING on the WR to be in a certain spot...at a certain time. Very rarely, usually broken plays, does the QB have the luxury of being able to pick out the "open" receiver.

To make the matter even MORE complex, the QB is throwing the ball based on HIS perception of what the Defense is doing. He is RELYING on the WR to have the same perception. No longer do WR just run straight routes called in the huddle. In situations where the players are experienced in the system and have played several years with eachother, there will be up to 3 options on every pass play. I'm pretty sure the Pats coaching staff is limiting that to 2 in this case, but this still requires a great deal more timing than what we think. (the Q drops back. Sees the the open receiver.Throws the ball).

What really is happening is the QB drops back, reads the defense, Then he reads the key defender (usually a OLB or S) then throws to one receiver or another. (For ex. QB reads Tampa 2 on the snap. He has one WR running a 10 yd incut and another running a deep post. If the S jumps the incut he looks to the post, or vica versa - a good example of this was the Branch TD against Pittsburgh when Troy P, jumped the incut and Brady hit Branch on the post for a TD.

The same goes for the WR, and he has a poor look at the defense. He has to read the defense CORRECTLY, get off the LOS, and not only be in the correct area, he has to be in the correct area AT THE RIGHT TIME, hoping the QB has seen the same thing that he did.

This requires A GREAT DEAL OF TIMING and ENDLESS repetitions, and usually practices don't give you the kind of look you will get in a game. So that is ENDLESS REPETITIONS in GAME situations. BTW- This is a very short and simple explaination on just ONE SID of one route. A Pro team wil have 50-60 combinations

Given all of this, and the fact that of Brady's 4 of 5 of Brady's WRs are new THIS year, and of those only ONE even had the benefit of a training camp. Its a wonder we complete any passes at all.

2. Now after I've said ALL OF THAT, here is something I've been wondering about for some time. Are coaches getting too smart for their own good? Are they OVER coaching? Are they thinking too much about what works, and less about the good execution?

They say that nothing is really new in football, just adaptations of things that were done years ago (examples: a lot of the plays that we see out of the shotgun formation, are plays that were develped decades ago in the era of the single wing, which died out in the early 50's. Also that 3-4 defense that is all the rage now is still the same one that OKLAHOMA U, ran in the 50's under Bud Wilkerson, etc, etc)

So I'm wondering if teams would be able to get an advantage if they forgot about all the reading crap, and just ran SET routes that everyone knows about. What was lost in the scheming, would be gained in EXECUTION, and fewer chances for a turnover.

I still remember, back in the day ( ), how teams would talk about defending the Unitas to Berry 12 yd out cut. Teams would know it was coming, be ready for it, but still not be able to defend it becasue the EXECUTION was so flawless. So since in the NFL, where the old and forgotten, quickly become the new and innovative, maybe this would work for a while, especially in the Pats situation. What do you guys think?

3. PET PEEVE: Watching most of the teams that haven't won a game, beat teams you wouldn't think they could REMINDS me of what I have always believed. EVERY team in the NFL is VERY GOOD. In other words they all have VERY GOOD football players. ERGO, EVERY team in the NFL has the talent to win ANY game. How well teams actually DO in the long run, is more a function of they system they play in, the motivation to excell that is available, experience, and the coaching they get. That is why so often a so called "impact player" is viewed as successful on one team and less in another, or visa versa. So IMHO even a team like the woebegotten Oakland Raider can play an "elite" team like the Broncos, and except for a play or two, play them even. ERGO: EVERY win is a GREAT WIN, and just because we DIDN'T blow out Miami or the Bills etc, we probably shouldn't be so critical of our team. It is NEVER easy, guys. The talent gap between teams isn't all they great. Every team has 3-5 Exceptional players, but the other 48-50 guys are all pretty much the same (relatively speaking )

4. Winning all these games recently have kind of made the regular season almost an after thought. I enjoy the games just as much, but as a fan, I don't feel the intensitiy week in and week out I felt when this run began. I read a good article in the globe this week, which pointed that out. It was Tomase I think.

He noted, looking at this division and the lead we have right now, it is now pretty clear that unless some thing radically bad would have to happen to us, as well as something radically good to happen to one of our opponents, we WILL win this division (AFCE). So for now, I think that the Pats are now in a prolonged "training camp" attempting to DEVELOP the team that will be ready to play its BEST football in January. Only the importance of getting a bye keeps this regular season even remotely riviting. Because it really doesn't matter whether we win 9 games or 14, we will STILL win the division.

5. All that being said, I still strongly believe that if we don't play a good game in Buffalo, we could lose. We don't need a great game, but a solid one where we don't get too many penalties, TOs, of gbive up long plays.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:18 PM   #2
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Default Re: Idle thoughts

Very very good post.

I think you hit the nail on the head as far as the WRs go. And your thoughts on both the talent level of the 'average' NFL team and the AFCE this season are very on spot with what I'd been noticing as well, but stated better than I could have ever put out there.

I'm glad you've started posting these over here as well as at KFFL. Thank you!
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Old 10-16-2006, 02:02 PM   #3
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Regarding the strength of bad teams, yes, it is important to remember that good records usually come from teams that make the big plays at the big time not blowouts from start to finish. Sure it's nice to be able to laugh through the 4th quarter of a game vs. Cincy on occasion. But anyone who thinks that's the norm for any team, even against bad teams is wrong. A lot of games which look like blowouts based on the final score are often close in the 3rd or even 4th quarter.

On the WR however complicated it may be, we have to find a way to make it work. That may be by trying to incorporate the full offense given that we should win the division easily and it may be worth a loss or two, and a lower seed, to have Gabriel, Caldwell and Jackson fully on board come playoff time. But if they aren't going to get there, they'll need to simplify things to make something work. Other teams have been able to incorporate their guys in. So either 1) We brought in crap, 2) We're integrating them badly or, hopefully, 3) We're sacrificing a little production now for a bigger gain later in the season.
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Old 10-16-2006, 03:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: Idle thoughts

"prolonged training camp"

NEM never did like two-a-days.
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Old 10-16-2006, 04:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Idle thoughts

Great point at the end there about the regular season.

With the Pats as good as they are and the division as bad as it's been in years, I'm already counting down the days until the regular season is over, as well as trying to figure out the best possible scenarios.

And it's October.

Maybe 5 years ago I would ride every game like it was life or death, and really savor the division rivalries, but now, it's a total snore fest.

The Jets, Bills, and Dolphins are so pathetic that you can just laugh at them as bottom-feeders and leave it at that. They act like there's some big rivalry and we Pats Fans are getting all fired up for the game, but in reality, the rivalry is dead. The Pats have just been too dominant.
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:01 PM   #6
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We have a legit shot at the #1 seed in the AFC so for this fan every game is critical.

Great post as usual PFK
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:03 PM   #7
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Well put, have heard this time and time again on the talk shows with the players and BB. Heard the comparison about how Branch was integrated into the Hawks game plan, he is one wr who is joining three regulars. For the Pats all of their receivers are new except for #80.

Also heard the argument about the timing stuff, particularly as it relates to blitz pick or getting "chucked" at the line. Our previous receivers adjusted their routes and Brady is considered to be the master of adjustments. Our new guys are not well versed in making adjustments, thus Troy has picked up a lot of receptions early.. the others have not.

I hope we have a great offensive game against Buffalo, and Brady throws at least 2 long td's.. just to shut everybody up, this board has beaten this to death. No matter this team will never put up flashy numbers, all we do is win and this is the most important.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:36 PM   #8
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If you keep writing these nice threads, somebody around here should hire you to do regular contributions.

1) I think that there is plenty of so-called 'blame' to go around in the passing game, and that nobody has been terrific so far. But most of the 'problems' have been essentially unavoidable at this point because these guys are not familiar with each other. So I like the way you try to put it into perspective. I also feel like they can get it together because thankfully the schedule is not bad, so let the training camp continue!

2) The good teams often do run simple plays, like Denver's zone blocking run game or some of the Colts WR patterns. The Pats try that approach when playing games in the division (i.e. keep it simple). Ironically, those are the game plans that certain posters grumble relentlessly about after the fact.

3) Raiders looked good on D at Denver, and if the offense wasn't so totally uninterested in playing football, with the exception of side-line to side-line Lamont Jordan, they would have won.

4) The real excitement of this year's Patriot's schedule will be can they avoid 'trap' game after 'trap' game after 'trap' game.......

5) Bills will be angry.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Rings for Brady!!
If you keep writing these nice threads, somebody around here should hire you to do regular contributions.

1) I think that there is plenty of so-called 'blame' to go around in the passing game, and that nobody has been terrific so far. But most of the 'problems' have been essentially unavoidable at this point because these guys are not familiar with each other. So I like the way you try to put it into perspective. I also feel like they can get it together because thankfully the schedule is not bad, so let the training camp continue!

2) The good teams often do run simple plays, like Denver's zone blocking run game or some of the Colts WR patterns. The Pats try that approach when playing games in the division (i.e. keep it simple). Ironically, those are the game plans that certain posters grumble relentlessly about after the fact.

3) Raiders looked good on D at Denver, and if the offense wasn't so totally uninterested in playing football, with the exception of side-line to side-line Lamont Jordan, they would have won.

4) The real excitement of this year's Patriot's schedule will be can they avoid 'trap' game after 'trap' game after 'trap' game.......

5) Bills will be angry.
As Troy would say "Bingo, I got Bingo!"
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Old 10-16-2006, 07:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patfanken
a good article in the globe this week, which pointed that out. It was Tomase I think.
Actually, I doubt it.
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