ClevTrev

He is a good nickel. Sentiments shared on this one.

bucky

I have no idea what you're talking about. And I'm afraid you don't either. Samuel was the #1 CB for every single one of the Pats played last year, except the last Miami game when he got the day off. That's pretty much not even debatable.

AzPatsFan

The Pats don't really have a first and second CB.

They have a LCB and a RCB, and they don't flip flop. Each draws the guy lined up against him irrespective of whether that receiver is a #1 or #2 WR.

They don't have a SS or FS per se. They have a Right and Left safety. It just turns out that the LS is usually lined up on the Offenses strong side (where the TE lines up), and most teams run right. So Harrison was usually playing the run since he was a LS.

jimmyjames

Going back over the game stats of the Pats last 6 or so games and looking at who was making plays on who. Here is who Hobbs' primary assignment was against:
KC - Eddie kennison
TB - Samuel and Hobbs switched off b/t Galloway and Hilliard in first half, by second half it was mostly Hobbs on Galloway
Jets - L. Coles
in the Playoffs Hobbs had Jimmy Smith vs. Jax and then for Denver had
Rod Smith most of the day and Samuel had Lelie

Seems to me like Hobbs was drawing the primary WR to me.

FWIW both are listed as starting corners on the last iteration of the 2005 depth chart and my initial point was that going into camp this year I expect Hobbs to have a starting job, while I am not sure that Samuel will retain his.

bucky

That's true most of the time (On occasion, especially in the playoffs, the Pats' game plan calls for 1-1 matchups between WRs and CBs based on matchups.)

Still, for most teams, including the Pats, the LCB = #1 CB -probably because almost all QBs are right-handed. Ty Law played LCB his entire career here. And Samuel has been the LCB since Law got injured in the beginning of 2004.

bucky

jimmyjames, I don't want to get into a deep argument with you. AzPatsFan brings up correctly that most of the time, the Pats' CBs stay on their own side. I don't remember the specific game plans for all those games, but I do remember that in the Denver game, it was Samuel vs Lelie and Hobbs vs. Smith. But in the reg-season Denver game, it was Starks playing Smith all day long. Obviously, this was a matchup-based decision (due to Lelie's speed and the need to bring a safety in the box vs. Denver's run) and Hobbs was getting some safety help over the top. When I say that Samuel was the #1 CB, I'm talking about him playing the LCB position. Almost all the teams have their best CB playing LCB.

jimmyjames

I understand and am not looking to pick a fight. that is why I amended my last post to say that my original point was that I am expecting Hobbs to remain a starter next season but will be surprised in Samuel emerges from camp with his starting job in tact. I think by re-reading some of the other posts in this thread you will see that I am not alone in that belief.

The Gr8est

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is that BB did NOT trade for any future draft picks. That may mean that this talent infusion into the offense was his plan all along. The picks of Thomas and Mills in particular, with their character and intangibles in particular, seem to be guys that BB envisions revolutinizing the Pats offense and he wasn't going to risk losing them.

ilduce06410

jimmyjames and bucky, i (think) i follow your arguments, but IMO AzPatsFan is closer to the schemes i see out there.
1. patriots don't do the whole SS/FS thing, it's more of a 'split safety' philosophy.
2. certainly ty law played LCB all his time here. but i don't think it was because there was a LCB/RCB approach. IMO it waas because ty felt more comfortable on that side of the field. but as you may remember ty and rodney started playing CB-safety games late in ty's last season.
3. the patriots playbook doesn't seem to have safeties rotate toward one or another side of the field in an organized way. it's more like forward/back. it's much harder for opposing QBs to read complete a progression before big sey or willie ray close the pocket.
4. IMO BB doesn't see that backfield in the context of 4 starters, a nickel back, and a dime DB. it looks like to me that his basic unit is 6 DBs, using backs in a rotation where their roles change from play to play. the QB can't figure out the coverage by watching the safeties, they move every which way.
5. QBs also can't figure out who's covering the #1 WR, it's often more like a zone thing. in one sector and man-to-man somewhere else. if there is assignment of a CB to single coverage for an entire game, it's surely disguised to try & confuse the QB.
6. i like seeing samuel in the middle of the field, he impresses me as a ballhawk. hobbs seems good at man coverage, that could be on either WR or on the TE. gay & several others look really good to me when they're floating back there in some kinda disguised zone, with help from a LB or a safety.
7. geno wilson is a more confident player when rodney is next to him. the whole DB needs a leader, e.g. willie clay, lawyer, RH. then the 1-2 hitters, like t-buck, wilson, and others. samuel got in some heavy hits last season.
8. IMO that back 7 sets up in a way that the safeties have to come up and make first hits if the triangle in the middle (MLB-DT-DT, or ILB-ILB-NT) breaks up. guss scott, sanders, wilson, ventrone, all got hurt coming up to take on the likes of ron brown, mcgahee, the bus, tomlinson, running untouched into the backfield. even RH isn't enough if opposing teams can get their RBs into the backfield like that say, 10 times a game.

DaBruinz

Actually, Eugene Wilson was taken with the 4th pick in the second round in 2003. Johnson was taken with the 13th pick in the 2nd round.

Branch was taken with the 33rd pick in the 2nd round in 2002.

http://www.drafthistory.com/teams/patriots.html