Originally Posted by patsfan-1982

#1 Ben Roethlisberger,

#2 Philip Rivers,

#3Eli Manning,

#4 Larry Fitzgerald,

#5 Steven Jackson,

#6 Jared Allen,

#7 Darnell Dockett,

#8 Tommie Harris,

#9 Matt Schaub

#10 bob sanders,

#11 Chris Snee,


#12 Shaun Phillips,

#13 Michael Turner,


#14 lee evens,

#15 vince wilfork,

#16 Jonathan Vilma,

#17 DeAngelo Hall,

#18 Will Smith,

#19 Karlos Dansby,

#20 Chris Cooley,


thats my top 20

Originally Posted by SanAngeloState

I just hope we can get some draft picks for Big Vince

A mid first sounds good! We can pick Dan Williams in the 2nd round and be better off...cheaper too, 50 bucks...(what movie was that from)?

Or maybe run more 4-3 if we can't seem to get any linebackers who can shed blocks, especially Mayo. Hopefully Mayo's knee isn't ruined.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Out of this list of 20 I put Wilfork #20.
I don't know how we put a guy who plays 2 downs, and has almost the sole responsibility of shutting down the run on a ery average run defense be ranked ahead of good 3 down players?
I know this board overrates the Pats, but to say he is among the top 5 or 6 players in that draft is ludicrous.
To be in the top 5 or 6 of this list he would have to be a Pat Williams, Ted Washington orJamal Williams type of NT that makes your defense impossible to run on. Have you guys been watching teams run successfully up the middle on us for years?

Originally Posted by Miguel

In anothe thread I contended that Wilfork was one of the best players from the 2004 draft. AndyJohnson opined that "He was one of the highest drafted players in the 2004 draft. (21?) I don't think he is far above the 21st best player from that draft, given the one-dimensional nature of his play, and the number of snaps he particiaptes in" and he "will at some point look at the 2004 draft and give a list of players I consider better or in the neighborhood. The list may not reach 20 but it also wont be as low as 6 or 7 either"

From the 2004 draft
DraftHistory.com

these are the players that I think that if the 2004 draft was done over and it was BPA would definitely be drafted ahead of Wilfork

The 3 QBS (Eli, Rivers, Big Ben,
Steven Jackson
Fitzgerald
Jared Allen

The following are maybes
Tommie Harris
Bob Sanders
Schaub,
Vilma
Dansby
Michael Turner

I would like to hear you rank Wilfork among the players from the 2004 draft.

Originally Posted by SanAngeloState

Or maybe run more 4-3 if we can't seem to get any linebackers who can shed blocks, especially Mayo. Hopefully Mayo's knee isn't ruined.

Originally Posted by The Dynasty

The Patriots wont switch to a 4-3, BB has never run anything besides the 3-4 in all of his years in the NFL

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

I know this board overrates the Pats, but to say he is among the top 5 or 6 players in that draft is ludicrous.

Originally Posted by patsfan-1982

i wont lie i was not even going to put him in my top 20. not cause i don't think he is a good player but for the same reasons you said. he is a 2 down run stoper on a average. run D. the best run stoper on this team was seymour. i think wilfork can be replaced. yes there will be some drop off. but not the same drop off as looseing seymour, was and who i think will not get replaced any time soon.

Originally Posted by convertedpatsfan

Regarding the 2-down argument, is Gary Guyton a better player because he's on the field more?

In most lists, people put the 3 franchise QBs #1-#3, but why does Eli rank so high? He gets bonus points for playing a critical position. He's probably only the 9th or 10th best QB in the league right now, but does that make him better than perhaps the top WR in the league in Fitzgerald, or one of the top 3 pass rushers in Allen?

Vince is a dominant NT, and one of the few who can play the 2-gap system. Good NTs who fit a 3-4 system are very difficult to find, which is why Tyson Jackson was drafted way higher than he should have been. Vince isn't supposed to shut down the run game; he's supposed to eat up blockers, which he does quite well. Each week, the other team's OC must start by accounting for Vince in the middle. He demands a constant double-team, sometimes even a triple-team.

It's no surprise that Ray Lewis has been rejuvenated once the Ravens drafted Ngata to eat up blockers inside. And though Haynesworth's stats in Washington were poor, his teammates credit him for allowing them to make plays around him. A good NT makes his other teammates better. They can make a low-key free agent signing like TBC into a double-digit sack machine. And when you don't play with a great NT, even a great DE like Seymour becomes less effective (see Oakland).

Yes, Vince only plays 2 downs. And yes, he sometimes gets pushed out of the way by 3 other guys. But you're not going to replace him very easily. Finding a good NT is tough; finding one who can play the 2-gap system well is even tougher. There are more elite QBs, WRs and RBs than there are elite NTs (in any system). He's a rare commodity, and deserves to be recognized as such.

Originally Posted by convertedpatsfan

Regarding the 2-down argument, is Gary Guyton a better player because he's on the field more?

In most lists, people put the 3 franchise QBs #1-#3, but why does Eli rank so high? He gets bonus points for playing a critical position. He's probably only the 9th or 10th best QB in the league right now, but does that make him better than perhaps the top WR in the league in Fitzgerald, or one of the top 3 pass rushers in Allen?

Vince is a dominant NT, and one of the few who can play the 2-gap system. Good NTs who fit a 3-4 system are very difficult to find, which is why Tyson Jackson was drafted way higher than he should have been. Vince isn't supposed to shut down the run game; he's supposed to eat up blockers, which he does quite well. Each week, the other team's OC must start by accounting for Vince in the middle. He demands a constant double-team, sometimes even a triple-team.

It's no surprise that Ray Lewis has been rejuvenated once the Ravens drafted Ngata to eat up blockers inside. And though Haynesworth's stats in Washington were poor, his teammates credit him for allowing them to make plays around him. A good NT makes his other teammates better. They can make a low-key free agent signing like TBC into a double-digit sack machine. And when you don't play with a great NT, even a great DE like Seymour becomes less effective (see Oakland).

Yes, Vince only plays 2 downs. And yes, he sometimes gets pushed out of the way by 3 other guys. But you're not going to replace him very easily. Finding a good NT is tough; finding one who can play the 2-gap system well is even tougher. There are more elite QBs, WRs and RBs than there are elite NTs (in any system). He's a rare commodity, and deserves to be recognized as such.