For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem... - Page 5 - New England Patriots Forums

***KontradictioN*** · 01-20-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patspsycho

Since his record as a coach has improved EVERY year, I'm afraid that it doesn't.

His record as a coach has improved along with the talent on the team. Prime example, they went to the playoffs and got knocked out in the first round last year with Tarvaris Jackson in at QB. This year, they got a Pro Bowler and have seen their record improve and have advanced to the championship. Brad Childress is a bad coach. The only reason his team is where they are now is due to talent. Talent overrides coaching, which was my original point. The fact that you have pointed out the Vikings' record in his first year of coaching and how it has gotten steadily better (along with the talent level) further cements my original point.

IMO, I think you have failed to properly understand what that original point was.

***KontradictioN*** · 01-20-2010, 05:12 PM

Oh, and it's also hilarious how there hasn't been anybody here that has been able to answer my question. Even more funny is the amount of you that are tip-toeing the line but seem to be actually afraid to come out and say, publicly, that you think Childress is a good coach. By the way, this doesn't have to be about Childress either. The Vikings were just an example. I could just as easily point out Caldwell and Tubby Wrecks.

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 01-20-2010, 05:26 PM

Childress is a good coach - as a Head Coach he's been average and sometimes hilarious in a train wreck sort of way, and a coach whom I can cheerfully despise. His team is in the NFCCG, talent certainly got him there - as we were somewhat painfully reminded of this season - I still cheerfully despise him, but he's not a "bad" coach by definition, just a limp richard at whom we can sneer.

upstater1 · 01-20-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Belichick didn't fire Pees. As for the rest of what you wrote, I can only state that you seemingly have never held a management position.

Well, I have been in management, am in management now.

SMYsays he was fired. others say he wasn't, that he was retiring for health reasons. Then he goes and tries for jobs in Miami and Denver.

Yeah, right. This is called, we're letting you go, but you have the option of resigning.

PATRIOTSFANINPA · 01-20-2010, 05:48 PM

No doubt in my mind Pees was going to be fired but "I am sick and am leaving" sounds better.

It was BS from the start IMO

Probably the same for Bruschi who was likely to get cut but opt to announce retirement instead because it 'sounded better'.

upstater1 · 01-20-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brady to Brown

"It is what it is"

Belichick bought the groceries and for the most part determines where and how the lettuce and apples are used. The best chef in the world can't make a great salad with brown lettuce.

We'll see next year. If next year's defense is a ton better, maybe it will be because of the first round pick. That will be a valid argument. It could be because Darius Butler is better than Shawn Springs. Maybe we'll draft an OLB who will give us more than Adalius. It will be interesting though, and I would not be shocked at all to see the D improve significantly even without a rookie who can step in on day 1 and make an impact.

upstater1 · 01-20-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box_O_Rocks

Could you link me to the quote where BB "intimated" the situation with O'Brien was suboptimal? Thanks.

I'm talking about his relationship with O'Brien, not O'Brien's abilities. If he fires or demotes O'Brien, then obviously that will be telling as to how he feels about O'Brien's abilities. But when Belichick said that the coaching was not optimal (including himself in that) and then said that Weis and Crennel used to check him all the time (and that he's not getting as much these days) I'd say that means in Belichick's mind, the coaching situation isn't optimal.

emoney_33 · 01-20-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstater1

I'm talking about his relationship with O'Brien, not O'Brien's abilities. If he fires or demotes O'Brien, then obviously that will be telling as to how he feels about O'Brien's abilities. But when Belichick said that the coaching was not optimal (including himself in that) and then said that Weis and Crennel used to check him all the time (and that he's not getting as much these days) I'd say that means in Belichick's mind, the coaching situation isn't optimal.

He never once said either of those two things.

Quote:

Q: This is kind of a hard one, but a lot of the guys that are on your staff now – as talented as they may be – weren't on your staff before you were Bill Belichick, three-time Super Bowl Champion. I wonder if there isn't a level of awe that they may feel to be on your staff, whereas Josh McDaniels, Tom Dimitroff, Scott Pioli, Charlie Weis, you all came up together. What I'm driving at is are you getting enough pushback from the guys on your staff? Do you know what I mean?

BB: Yeah, absolutely. And I've talked to other coaches about that – coaches that are pretty well established, and I get the nature of your question. There's definitely Romeo [Crennel] or Charlie or somebody; they wouldn't really be afraid to at times say, 'What are you doing? Are you serious? Are you seriously considering that?' And then there is certainly another level of coach that at that time or at this time, they just wouldn't say that to me. And I mean, I understand that and that's … and I was like that. There was a point in time where I was like that, where I would never say to, whether it was coach [Ted] Marchibroda or Red Miller or whoever, I wouldn't. And then there was a point in time where I would, whether it was Bill [Parcells] or – mostly Bill. There's a point in time where you reach a point or you have a relationship and you feel more comfortable saying things that you just wouldn't have said – even with that guy – a few years earlier. I definitely get where you're at on that and I mean, I understand that. We try to have an open communication, an open forum on some things and some things aren't open. Some things are 'This is the way they're going to be.' But I understand what you're getting at and I think that's something, as a head coach, you have to be conscious of and I am. I'm not saying a do a great job of it. I don't know whether I do or not, but I'm definitely conscious of that and I get what you're saying there.

mcmurtry86 · 01-20-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontradictioN

...or at least more of a problem than the talent drop-off, then I would love for you to explain to me in detail how that Vikings are in the NFC Championship game in spite of having Brad Childress as their coach.

Plenty of teams have won with average (relative to other playoff teams) talent and elite coaching

Plenty of teams have won with elite talent and mediocre coaching

Plenty of teams have NOT won with elite talent and mediocre coaching

Plenty of teams have NOT won with average talent and elite coaching

You're over simplifying the case of the Vikings. Childress is a mediocre head coach but he has a loaded balanced offense, a dominant front 7 (although EJ Henderson being hurt has diminished it a bit) and one of the better defensive coordinators in the game in Leslie Frazier.

The Patriots' struggles were a result of both coaching and roster deficiencies, I don't think anyone would argue that both don't need to be upgraded. That said, it's absurd for anyone to claim to know which of those 2 factors was "more" responsible for the lack of success this year, there's simply no way to know for sure.

***Deus Irae*** · 01-20-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paradox

If Pees is in as DC for Denver, then BB fired him. No way he stepped down for the same position in Denver. Very likely BB was nice enough to allow him to step down so he wouldn't get the label "fired"

Actually, it's possible that he "stepped down for the same position in Denver". That very situation just happened with the Denver DC going off to Miami. People here are speculating, nothing more.