How much is correctable? - New England Patriots Forums

***mgteich*** · 12-01-2009, 11:03 PM

I don't think that we currently have close to the team that the saints have. That doesn't mean that we can't win the AFC and even beat the saints on a given Sunday. We have a top 5 offense and a top 10 defense. That's good enough for the playoffs. The issue is what we can do to be a force in the playoffs.

THE OFFENSE
1. The OL plays very well when healthy. They are decimated at the moment. Almost all have been playing injured, or have sat out games recently with injuries. The cure is health.
2. Have we really been playing too much predictable shotgun? I think so, but this has happened when a lineman goes down. Again the cure is health.
3. O'Brian isn't very good at his job, but we are not sure that he even calls the plays. In any cas,e the running game has been much, much better. We have developed both a #3 receiver in Aiken and a backup slot man in Edelman. Even Stanback looks pretty good. The offense has Morris back. Again, even here, the main issue is the health of the OL.
4. There is ONE issue on the offense that is a mystery: the inability to finish and the relatively poor performance in the second half of games. I don't know the answer. It has been a long time since a Belichick team has blown second half leads (3 so far). Having a terrible game is one thing. Blowing a 17 point lead is quite another.
5. BOTTOM LINE - This offense is an elite offense; not the best, but elite nonetheless.

THE DEFENSE
1. We could be better with Seymour and Hobbs on the squad, but this is not an option.
We will need to settle for the fine young developing defense that we have.
2. The defensive line has been playing pretty well when healthy. Wilfork, Green and Warren have all been injured. Wright has played very well indeed. Burgess and Pryor have been contributers in a couple of games. In the end, health is the real issue at the moment.
3. The linebackers are what they are: our weakest unit. We knew this going into the offseason, into the draft, into the preseason, and into the season. The good news is that they have been playing reasonably well. However, it does say something when TBC is the best performer among the linebackers. It seems that better schemes might help. We have four very reasonable linebackers in Banta-Cain, Mayo, Thomas and Guyton. And Woods and Ninkovich have been OK when they have been called upon. This could have been much worse, given the personnel.
4. We don't have much of a pass-rush. We needed one of Burgess or Banta-Cain to step up even to have what we have. That did indeed happen. However, we also need better play from Thomas.
5. The secondary has been very good so far this year, and they have been improving. Yes, they had an aweful game against the possible league MVP and the best passer of the past three years. Yes, they missed some coverages. However, the patriot defensive schemes presented no problems for the saints. What can be done was seen in the play of the very weak saints secondary. Somehow, the patriots had no clue what was coming from the saints defense. It changed during the game. Kudos to the saints coaching staff!
6. The bottom line is that this is a top 10 defense, and that is good enough for the playoffs and good enough to win it all if the offense plays better (which would require more healthy players).

BOTTOM LINE
We have a great offense and a so-so defense. We have to be able to expect the offense to win some games late, especially if the defense falters. We may prefer it the other way around, but we are who we are. Our three best players are Brady, Welker and Moss. And we are a pass-first team with no fullback and no #3 TE. The running game has been fine, given the situation. So, what does this mean? It means that the team is contructed to depend on Brady.

RayClay · 12-01-2009, 11:46 PM

We do have close to the team they have, they just happen to have it clicking now, while we are young on defense and a mere coherent game planner away on offense.

The 2001 team did not nearly have...the Rams.....

We got our ass kicked one game, but it wasn't the playoffs.

Wasn't too long ago the giants struggled and we were "unbeatable". We have plenty of horses, just need coaching and some fire and desire.

RayClay · 12-01-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgteich

We could be better with Seymour and Hobbs on the squad

Of course Seymour would help, but we have enough for fine line play with a return to health.

Is that second part a typo or something? A Hobbit on the squad?

upstater1 · 12-02-2009, 12:03 AM

A lot is correctable.

My ears picked up one major item during the Belichick press conference: he admitted that the team's intensity flagged as soon as the Saints grabbed the momentum. They grabbed it when the Patriots went to an empty backfield.

Intensity is correctable.

Playcalling is correctable--if the OC learns how to call plays better. Obviously it's correctable.

I only see two things that may not be correctable: one, the tackling. Did they forget how to tackle? Or are they weak tacklers? Leaning toward the latter. Two, Wilhite? If you don't have ball skills, then you don't have ball skills. he's in the WRs pocket. And he can't do a thing about the pass.

These are two major weaknesses, and teams will continue to exploit them.

Bodden needs to play closer to the line and we need to play cover 2 in case he gets beat.

How do I know that intensity was a major factor in the game? Well, on one play, Adalius Thomas was totally embarrassed and made to look like a fool. He was pissed. So the next play he goes all out, blows by the tackle, runs like a madman and sacks Brees. I know a player can't be that intense for every play, but it was clear that until that moment, Adalius's aggression and intensity was not a factor.

You have to wonder if this defense is doing way too much thinking.

Patspsycho · 12-02-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgteich

I don't think that we currently have close to the team that the saints have. That doesn't mean that we can't win the AFC and even beat the saints on a given Sunday. We have a top 5 offense and a top 10 defense. That's good enough for the playoffs. The issue is what we can do to be a force in the playoffs.

THE OFFENSE
1. The OL plays very well when healthy. They are decimated at the moment. Almost all have been playing injured, or have sat out games recently with injuries. The cure is health. Agreed. Neal was definitely not himself, Kaczur either. Levoir was busy, jumping between RG and LT spelling Light who clearly is not in game shape and came out for stretches.
2. Have we really been playing too much predictable shotgun? I think so, but this has happened when a lineman goes down. Again the cure is health.I am not sure about this- we had a 2RB set on the first drive that worked well and dictated tempo, but then we left it for some reason and tried pursuing the passing game which let the NO DL run all over us instead of playing conservative against the run.
3. O'Brian isn't very good at his job, but we are not sure that he even calls the plays. In any cas,e the running game has been much, much better. We have developed both a #3 receiver in Aiken and a backup slot man in Edelman. Even Stanback looks pretty good. The offense has Morris back. Again, even here, the main issue is the health of the OL.I think our run game is getting back on track. Maroney has had consecutive TD's in 6 games so far, so that is a good sign. Now if we could lessen our dependency on the shotgun, we could get the opponent D to play more of a guessing game.
4. There is ONE issue on the offense that is a mystery: the inability to finish and the relatively poor performance in the second half of games. I don't know the answer. It has been a long time since a Belichick team has blown second half leads (3 so far). Having a terrible game is one thing. Blowing a 17 point lead is quite another. The answer, I think, lies in who exactly is doing the "blowing." Is it our Offense? Is it our D? I think, off the top of my head, it's the D. They are a young bunch and I would say they lack the mental toughness that it takes to gut it out for 60 minutes.
5. BOTTOM LINE - This offense is an elite offense; not the best, but elite nonetheless.

THE DEFENSE
1. We could be better with Seymour and Hobbs on the squad, but this is not an option. Hobbs? Please tell me you're not serious.
We will need to settle for the fine young developing defense that we have.
2. The defensive line has been playing pretty well when healthy. Wilfork, Green and Warren have all been injured. Wright has played very well indeed. Burgess and Pryor have been contributers in a couple of games. In the end, health is the real issue at the moment. Burgess played a stinker last night. He disappeared again and got yanked in favor of Pierre. TBC came out with some kind of shoulder/rib injury and when he went back in was not as effective. I think AD has been playing better lately and has been extremely vocal in identifying schemes.
3. The linebackers are what they are: our weakest unit. We knew this going into the offseason, into the draft, into the preseason, and into the season. The good news is that they have been playing reasonably well. However, it does say something when TBC is the best performer among the linebackers. It seems that better schemes might help. We have four very reasonable linebackers in Banta-Cain, Mayo, Thomas and Guyton. And Woods and Ninkovich have been OK when they have been called upon. This could have been much worse, given the personnel. Going to watch the replay on NFLN tomorrow night before remarking on this
4. We don't have much of a pass-rush. We needed one of Burgess or Banta-Cain to step up even to have what we have. That did indeed happen. However, we also need better play from Thomas. Our pass rush last night was nonexistent. Absolutely awful.
5. The secondary has been very good so far this year, and they have been improving. Yes, they had an aweful game against the possible league MVP and the best passer of the past three years. Yes, they missed some coverages. However, the patriot defensive schemes presented no problems for the saints. What can be done was seen in the play of the very weak saints secondary. Somehow, the patriots had no clue what was coming from the saints defense. It changed during the game. Kudos to the saints coaching staff! Our secondary had their biggest collapse last night. I am going to watch the replay on NFLN tomorrow night before making more comments.
6. The bottom line is that this is a top 10 defense, and that is good enough for the playoffs and good enough to win it all if the offense plays better (which would require more healthy players).

BOTTOM LINE
We have a great offense and a so-so defense. We have to be able to expect the offense to win some games late, especially if the defense falters. We may prefer it the other way around, but we are who we are. Our three best players are Brady, Welker and Moss. And we are a pass-first team with no fullback and no #3 TE. The running game has been fine, given the situation. So, what does this mean? It means that the team is contructed to depend on Brady.

10chars....

Satchboogie3 · 12-02-2009, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstater1

A lot is correctable.

My ears picked up one major item during the Belichick press conference: he admitted that the team's intensity flagged as soon as the Saints grabbed the momentum. They grabbed it when the Patriots went to an empty backfield.

Intensity is correctable.

Playcalling is correctable--if the OC learns how to call plays better. Obviously it's correctable.

I only see two things that may not be correctable: one, the tackling. Did they forget how to tackle? Or are they weak tacklers? Leaning toward the latter. Two, Wilhite? If you don't have ball skills, then you don't have ball skills. he's in the WRs pocket. And he can't do a thing about the pass.

These are two major weaknesses, and teams will continue to exploit them.

Bodden needs to play closer to the line and we need to play cover 2 in case he gets beat.

How do I know that intensity was a major factor in the game? Well, on one play, Adalius Thomas was totally embarrassed and made to look like a fool. He was pissed. So the next play he goes all out, blows by the tackle, runs like a madman and sacks Brees. I know a player can't be that intense for every play, but it was clear that until that moment, Adalius's aggression and intensity was not a factor.

You have to wonder if this defense is doing way too much thinking.

Instinct. Is it possible that this defense simply doesn't have the necessary experience and instinct to make smart plays? If they are overly worried about making the right reads, doing their job, and not screwing up, the problem might be that they can't rely on their instincts. Now, I'm no football coach, but it seems to me that it would be extremely hard to be a force and go all-out when you are busy thinking "I have to make sure it's not a play fake and I end up out of position". I hope this defense isn't lacking instinct because if they are, these problems may never go away.

***DarrylS*** · 12-02-2009, 03:34 AM

My view is that BB has spread himself too thin, Dean Pees is merely a parrot for Bill... and the OC is who??? As he has lost so many coordinators in the past years he has assumed too much responsibility.... and the result is obvious.

We do not have all the components of what we need, but by Bill doing too much it does not help... when we had the very good years, there were always very reliable coordinators who let BB look at the big picture... do not see a lot of creativity on either side of the ball... not sure if Weiss or RAC would make a difference, but not a big fan of Pees...

OTOH do not know if Seymour or Hobbs would have any effect on this team, I suspect the former was viewed as a very negative influence on this team..that is why he got his one way ticket out of town... personally got tired of seeing the back of Hobbs jersey chasing receivers..

102 Pat · 12-02-2009, 06:15 AM

It's interesting to read how when the Pats have lost this year, Seymour's name gets brought up a lot. Yet, last year, there were people wondering if he was worth the money he's making based on production (like Thomas this year).

I think there will be lots of tape from monday night for the defence to look over and correct. The way there were beat on monday night has embarrassed them and hopefully they use that chip on the shoulder mentality. Barring a complete collapse, there in the playoffs and it's a whole new season.

***ausbacker*** · 12-02-2009, 06:29 AM

Everything is correctable, it's just a matter of how long that correction is going to take. I'd doubt what we expect is an overnight job.

***mayoclinic*** · 12-02-2009, 07:11 AM

Everything on the offense is correctlable - but we've had all season to correct some of those problems, and haven't done so yet. We need to address the OL. I think having Vollmer at LT and Light at RT would greatly improve our line.

I'm not sure that the lack of a pass rush is correctable this season. We just don't have the horses. Maybe we can do something with safety blitzes, but otherwise I have a hard time seeing us generate more pressure than we already heave. When TBC is our best pass rusher (by far), it's not a good sign.