Rules question - New England Patriots Forums

livinginthe past · 10-04-2009, 04:49 PM

I have a question regarding the flag thrown on the fake punt attempt.

Was it not a procedural flag (illegal motion/shift) that immediately makes the play dead?

Doesn't it play out similar to a false start?

***PatriotsInGA*** · 10-04-2009, 04:50 PM

I was thinking the same thing. I always thought that you couldn't challenge a penalty.

***DaBruinz*** · 10-04-2009, 04:54 PM

I was thinking that, because it was, supposedly, a procedural penalty, that it nullified the play.. My issue with the call is that Watson never got set inside, so he should have been able to go in motion out the way he did. Especially since he DID get set prior to the snap. Also, the ball made it past the line, so he should have had the 1st...

But I'll admit to not being 100% sure.

***Wolfpack*** · 10-04-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livinginthe past

I have a question regarding the flag thrown on the fake punt attempt.

Was it not a procedural flag (illegal motion/shift) that immediately makes the play dead?

Doesn't it play out similar to a false start?

No. Illegal procedure, illegal motion or an illegal formation does not blow the play dead - only a false start or delay of game against the offense will do that. (Or, encroachment against the defense or offsides unabated to the QB. Also, a neutral zone infraction will blow the play dead).

On the fake FG it wasn't a false start, it was officially called illegal motion (even though just about everything was messed up), so the play continues as normal then the defense can choose to accept or decline it. Since the Patriots got the first down (after the review), the obvious decision is to take the penalty.

***Wolfpack*** · 10-04-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotsInGA

I was thinking the same thing. I always thought that you couldn't challenge a penalty.

He wasn't challenging the penalty, he was challenging the catch and first down. If the play was overturned and it was ruled an incomplete pass (or a complete pass shy of the first down marker) then Baltimore would simply have declined the penalty.

livinginthe past · 10-04-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

No. Illegal procedure, illegal motion or an illegal formation does not blow the play dead - only a false start or delay of game against the offense will do that. (Or, encroachment against the defense or offsides unabated to the QB. Also, a neutral zone infraction will blow the play dead).

On the fake FG it wasn't a false start, it was officially called illegal motion (even though just about everything was messed up), so the play continues as normal then the defense can choose to accept or decline it. Since the Patriots got the first down (after the review), the obvious decision is to take the penalty.

Thanks for clearing that up man, wasn't sure

Patspsycho · 10-04-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

He wasn't challenging the penalty, he was challenging the catch and first down. If the play was overturned and it was ruled an incomplete pass (or a complete pass shy of the first down marker) then Baltimore would simply have declined the penal;ty.

I never saw first down being called.

***pats1*** · 10-04-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patspsycho

I never saw first down being called.

The ref said it was a catch and a first down after the replay, which was a stretch - it certainly appeared to have been short.

Patspsycho · 10-04-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pats1

The ref said it was a catch and a first down after the replay, which was a stretch - it certainly appeared to have been short.

Okay.. makes sense. Thanks.

Hardboiled · 10-04-2009, 05:37 PM

It wasn't clear to me that they actually marked the ball. The side linesman seemed unprepared for the play and never indicated where it should be placed. The flag seemed to take his attention at the end of the play.

I think the refs took a passive route and simply moved the ball back 5 yards from the 1st down marker. The challenge to the spot was a long shot, but showed that there was poor officating on the play.