Idle thoughts... - New England Patriots Forums

patfanken · 03-21-2009, 11:25 AM

.... God this off season just gets better and better.

1. I almost didn't listen to BB's interview on weei the other day, because I didn't think I was in the mood to listen to a half hour of world class obsfucation. However I was pleasantly surprised at how forthcoming he was about the Cassel and Peppers situations. Here is my interpretation of what he said.

Cassel - Clearly the Pats were constrained by their cap situation, so the had to move Matt sometime within the first 2 or 3 days of FA or they would be completely hamstrung to accomplish the rest of what they needed to do to improve the team. One of the things I don't think that people understand is that ANYTHING we got for Matt Cassel was a bonus, since he was in the last year of his contract. The good news is that the Pats has a shot at getting at least something was using the Franchise Tag. The bad news is that THIS particular year using that tag brought us right up to the cap, so we could only keep Cassel on the team for a few days, IF we were going to make some of the other moves that would improve the team. Teams KNEW this well before the draft. They all knew that the Pats HAD to make a quick deal, and that's not good for the Pats negotiating stance.

Bottom line KC was ready with a deal. The 34th pick most likely gives the Pats a guy with a first round Grade, and KC picks up the risk of signing Cassel to a long term contract, and paying him a GUARATEED $14.6MM. None of the other teams came close to that deal. BB was clear that at the time they had KC's offer in hand there were NO OTHER DEALS on the table. All there was were vague inuendos and rumors of "possible" deals. Bottom line a bird in the hand.....

PEPPERS - The thing I got was that there CANNOT be a trade for Peppers....to any team... until he signs his Franchise Tender. I'm SURE that most of us didn't know that little fact. The Bottom Line here is that it is kind of useless to even SPECULATE about a possible Peppers trade until we see a new wire announcement that Peppers has signed his Tender. IF that happens before the Draft......THEN I would bet that within 24-48 hrs, Peppers will be dealt....maybe even to the Pats, but I have already made myself clear on how I would feel about that.

2. I don't see any scenerio where the Pats keep more than 5 rookies on the final 53 man roster, so it will be very interesting to see how Bill uses those 12 picks to get those 5 players. One of the interesting things he said in his interview was the the difference between picking at 23 over 34 is NOT that you will get a better athlete, but that you have more OPTIONS on who that athlete IS. A nice subtle BB observation. Personally I'd LOVE to see him use those bottom 6 picks to move up in the draft to insure they not only get 5-6 great athletes, but they get the guys they want the most.

3. This is day 17 of the Jason Taylor watch. Somehow I think this may go right up to training camp. Jason usually works out on his own in the off season, so he might want to avoid signing with a team early, so he can avoid all the off season workout programs and mini camps. If he signed now he may feel obligated to participate.

4. Its not the speed, but the ACCELERATION that is what I'm looking for in our draft picks. I think the 40 yd dash is the most OVERRATED stat. Its not how fast you can run 40 yds, its how fast you can get to your TOP speed. Thats what made Barry Sanders and Jerry Rice so good. ACCELERATION = SEPARATION, both on the offense AND defense. No discussion of a draft pick should be made WITHOUT looking at a players 10 yd split, and cone drill times. Speed is nice, ACCELERATION is nicer.

5. Could someone put a list of all the best Safety prospects for me. I think I read about a 6'4" 200+ CB who might make an awesome S.

6. The more I think on it, the more I think the Pats might use one of their first 4 picks on a WR - a big one (Harbin, from MD comes to mind)

7. I heard that the NFL was looking into changing the draft order, so that teams that made the playoffs wouldn't be drafting before teams that didn't. If it comes to pass I think it would mean the Pats would draft at #20 instead of 23. What are the chances of that happening for this draft.

***jmt57*** · 03-21-2009, 11:31 AM

On #7, if that were to change then it would not take place until next year. There is zero chance of it changing the order of next month's draft.

***Miguel*** · 03-21-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

.
PEPPERS - The thing I got was that there CANNOT be a trade for Peppers....to any team... until he signs his Franchise Tender. I'm SURE that most of us didn't know that little fact.

Then most of us did not read the below links

Cassel and the CBA

Miguel's Frequently Asked Questions Page

or forgot how about how past franchise players have been traded.

Pats726 · 03-21-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

.... God this off season just gets better and better.

1. I almost didn't listen to BB's interview on weei the other day, because I didn't think I was in the mood to listen to a half hour of world class obsfucation. However I was pleasantly surprised at how forthcoming he was about the Cassel and Peppers situations. Here is my interpretation of what he said.

Cassel - Clearly the Pats were constrained by their cap situation, so the had to move Matt sometime within the first 2 or 3 days of FA or they would be completely hamstrung to accomplish the rest of what they needed to do to improve the team. One of the things I don't think that people understand is that ANYTHING we got for Matt Cassel was a bonus, since he was in the last year of his contract. The good news is that the Pats has a shot at getting at least something was using the Franchise Tag. The bad news is that THIS particular year using that tag brought us right up to the cap, so we could only keep Cassel on the team for a few days, IF we were going to make some of the other moves that would improve the team. Teams KNEW this well before the draft. They all knew that the Pats HAD to make a quick deal, and that's not good for the Pats negotiating stance.

Bottom line KC was ready with a deal. The 34th pick most likely gives the Pats a guy with a first round Grade, and KC picks up the risk of signing Cassel to a long term contract, and paying him a GUARATEED $14.6MM. None of the other teams came close to that deal. BB was clear that at the time they had KC's offer in hand there were NO OTHER DEALS on the table. All there was were vague inuendos and rumors of "possible" deals. Bottom line a bird in the hand.....

PEPPERS - The thing I got was that there CANNOT be a trade for Peppers....to any team... until he signs his Franchise Tender. I'm SURE that most of us didn't know that little fact. The Bottom Line here is that it is kind of useless to even SPECULATE about a possible Peppers trade until we see a new wire announcement that Peppers has signed his Tender. IF that happens before the Draft......THEN I would bet that within 24-48 hrs, Peppers will be dealt....maybe even to the Pats, but I have already made myself clear on how I would feel about that.

2. I don't see any scenerio where the Pats keep more than 5 rookies on the final 53 man roster, so it will be very interesting to see how Bill uses those 12 picks to get those 5 players. One of the interesting things he said in his interview was the the difference between picking at 23 over 34 is NOT that you will get a better athlete, but that you have more OPTIONS on who that athlete IS. A nice subtle BB observation. Personally I'd LOVE to see him use those bottom 6 picks to move up in the draft to insure they not only get 5-6 great athletes, but they get the guys they want the most.

3. This is day 17 of the Jason Taylor watch. Somehow I think this may go right up to training camp. Jason usually works out on his own in the off season, so he might want to avoid signing with a team early, so he can avoid all the off season workout programs and mini camps. If he signed now he may feel obligated to participate.

4. Its not the speed, but the ACCELERATION that is what I'm looking for in our draft picks. I think the 40 yd dash is the most OVERRATED stat. Its not how fast you can run 40 yds, its how fast you can get to your TOP speed. Thats what made Barry Sanders and Jerry Rice so good. ACCELERATION = SEPARATION, both on the offense AND defense. No discussion of a draft pick should be made WITHOUT looking at a players 10 yd split, and cone drill times. Speed is nice, ACCELERATION is nicer.

5. Could someone put a list of all the best Safety prospects for me. I think I read about a 6'4" 200+ CB who might make an awesome S.

6. The more I think on it, the more I think the Pats might use one of their first 4 picks on a WR - a big one (Harbin, from MD comes to mind)

7. I heard that the NFL was looking into changing the draft order, so that teams that made the playoffs wouldn't be drafting before teams that didn't. If it comes to pass I think it would mean the Pats would draft at #20 instead of 23. What are the chances of that happening for this draft.

1----I'm always happy to hear CoachB...and he was said quite a lot about both situations. I think all Patriot fans knew how it was with Cassel and the cap...the trade was needed ASAP to free up money for players. NO question about that. As far as Peppers has gone..I think most fans realize that he has to sign the tender...SO..basically a trade would be worked out and then he would sign it and it would be done...case in point Tebucky Jones a few years ago..he signed it and the trade happened. I agree..when he signs teh trade will be done..BUT that is just a formality..it has to be done and would be..he gains nothing at that point by NOT signing it. Not big on Peppers coming here esp for big money...but for short term 2 years or so..it MAY be OK. Although I would rather he clog up someone else's cap not ours. He may say teh write things to get here..and change modes quick..so that is why I am saying short term.
2----Of course one always gets a better pick further up one is in the draft...and what he did not mention is that players drop out of the first round and can be scooped up at 34..with 2nd round money. There is an advantage being higher, but some years there is a plateau at certain places in the draft where talent is similar and places mean little.
3----Agreed..if Taylor is not signed..it may be he is waiting to land here before TC. No reason to rush his signing for those reasons..so that he has not signed is OK. (And makes the Peppers watch take fold..)
4---A nice observation..true.
5----Sean Smith Utah 6'4" 214 Utah...I am sure that some others can name the top ones..and why they would make it here
6----Top 4?? maybe I think sometime they will but..we shall see.
7----Not for this draft...MAYBE next year.

eom · 03-21-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

PEPPERS - The thing I got was that there CANNOT be a trade for Peppers....to any team... until he signs his Franchise Tender. I'm SURE that most of us didn't know that little fact. The Bottom Line here is that it is kind of useless to even SPECULATE about a possible Peppers trade until we see a new wire announcement that Peppers has signed his Tender. IF that happens before the Draft......THEN I would bet that within 24-48 hrs, Peppers will be dealt....maybe even to the Pats, but I have already made myself clear on how I would feel about that.

apparently, in this case 'most of us' = patfanken.
can't trade him if he's not under contract, dude.

this just means they can't trade him today, not that they can't trade him tomorrow --- and speculation usually concerns tomorrow....

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 03-21-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

2. I don't see any scenerio where the Pats keep more than 5 rookies on the final 53 man roster, so it will be very interesting to see how Bill uses those 12 picks to get those 5 players.

6. The more I think on it, the more I think the Pats might use one of their first 4 picks on a WR - a big one (Harbin, from MD comes to mind)

2. That's the final 53 man roster, there's also 8 other players needed to fill out the Practice Squad. NE has already used one of the "12" picks (assuming the projection of 3 comp picks works out). With the remaining 11 picks NE can indeed move around a little to get whom they want, and they could also trade a couple forward, but I think 5 rookies sticking isn't thinking in terms of the roster renovation BB started last year.
-- By the end of the 2008 season, NE had 16 rookies under contract. They've since released two of them.
-- Most of the rest are late round/UDFA kids who aren't locks by any means.
-- Finally, there's a number of veteran reserves who could stand an upgrade, not to mention some veterans who are worrisome candidates for injury.
NE may only keep 5 rookies on the 53 after final cutdown, but they're likely to keep as many again on the Practice Squad, and call another 2-3 back as they raid the Practice Squad for injury replacements.

6. Did you mean Heywood-Bey of Maryland or Harvin of Florida?

***mayoclinic*** · 03-21-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

PEPPERS - The thing I got was that there CANNOT be a trade for Peppers....to any team... until he signs his Franchise Tender. I'm SURE that most of us didn't know that little fact. The Bottom Line here is that it is kind of useless to even SPECULATE about a possible Peppers trade until we see a new wire announcement that Peppers has signed his Tender. IF that happens before the Draft......THEN I would bet that within 24-48 hrs, Peppers will be dealt....maybe even to the Pats, but I have already made myself clear on how I would feel about that.

I don't believe that is strictly true. It is true that there can be no trade for Peppers while he is not under contract to Carolina, which is his current status. In order for Carolina to trade him they have to have him under contract. All the franchise tender does is protect them from having another team sign him away for nothing in return. However, there are 2 ways in which they could trade him: (1) have him sign the franchise tender; and (2) have him sign a long-term contract. Either way, he would be under contract to them, and hence tradeable. Theoretically, Peppers' agent could negotiate a deal as the middleman between the Panthers and another team, and the Panthers would then sign Peppers and then trade him. What BB did say was that he would not do business that way; he wants Peppers signed and under contract before he starts serious negotiations.