The Long Ball - New England Patriots Forums

Schmo · 11-25-2008, 07:46 AM

Now I know that there are a bunch of Cassel vs Brady posts, but I am simply curious and on a fact finding 'mission' (and I guess a little too lazy too look into it myself because I don't remember - but I'm sure common knowledge among everyone here will suffice). What did Brady's long ball look like in his first year? I know Cassel has been slammed for "only hitting the short passes," but I was wondering about the difference in this area.

I know Brady has the downfield accuracy, but did he have to develop it?

ScottieC · 11-25-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmo

Now I know that there are a bunch of Cassel vs Brady posts, but I am simply curious and on a fact finding 'mission' (and I guess a little too lazy too look into it myself because I don't remember - but I'm sure common knowledge among everyone here will suffice). What did Brady's long ball look like in his first year? I know Cassel has been slammed for "only hitting the short passes," but I was wondering about the difference in this area.

I know Brady has the downfield accuracy, but did he have to develop it?

I think Brady has always had decent arm strength.

The deal here is that he's never really had a deep threat before, like Randy is now. So, I'm not sure if you ever saw what he could do, because he rarely would have a need to throw it 40-70 yards. Unless it was a Hail Mary in the last few sec's of a game, which thank GWAD because he's Tom F'n Brady we have not seen very often.

***JSn*** · 11-25-2008, 08:51 AM

I believe hard work to enhance natural gifts is the reason TFB is who he is.

Here's Tom's Scouting Report:

Quote:

QB TOM BRADY
(6-4 1/2, 211, 5.25) Michigan
Notes: Baseball catcher and football quarterback in high school who was drafted by the Montreal Expos in the 18th round of the June 1995 baseball draft. Opted for football and redshirted at Michigan in ’95. Saw limited action in ’96 and ’97 and started the past two years. Completed 3-of-5 passes for 26 yards, no touchdowns and one interception in ’96, 12-15-103-0-0 in ’97, 214-350-2,636-15-12 in ’98 and 180-295-2,216-16-6 in ’99, when he often shared time with super sophomore Drew Henson. Went all the way against Alabama in the Orange Bowl and completed 34-46-369-4. Unlike many Michigan quarterbacks, Brady is a pocket-type passer who plays best in a dropback-type system.

Positives: Good height to see the field. Very poised and composed. Smart and alert. Can read coverages. Good accuracy and touch. Produces in big spots and in big games. Has some Brian Griese in him and is a gamer. Generally plays within himself. Team leader.

Negatives: Poor build. Very skinny and narrow. Ended the ’99 season weighing 195 pounds and still looks like a rail at 211. Looks a little frail and lacks great physical stature and strength. Can get pushed down more easily than you’d like. Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush. Lacks a really strong arm. Can’t drive the ball down the field and does not throw a really tight spiral. System-type player who can get exposed if he must ad-lib and do things on his own.

Summary: Is not what you’re looking for in terms of physical stature, strength, arm strength and mobility, but he has the intangibles and production and showed great Griese-like improvement as a senior. Could make it in the right system but will not be for everyone.

scout · 11-25-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmo

Now I know that there are a bunch of Cassel vs Brady posts, but I am simply curious and on a fact finding 'mission' (and I guess a little too lazy too look into it myself because I don't remember - but I'm sure common knowledge among everyone here will suffice). What did Brady's long ball look like in his first year? I know Cassel has been slammed for "only hitting the short passes," but I was wondering about the difference in this area.

I know Brady has the downfield accuracy, but did he have to develop it?

It was somewhere around the 2002 season where there were abundant posts here stating that Brady couldn't throw deep. It was just as abundant as any of the other cycle of rants that take place here.
I think Cassell can throw long, he just needs to find the rhythm. I heard an announcer state that he can throw just as hard as Brady but can't throw long. Well, if someone can sling it just as hard, they can pretty much throw it deep. There was a lot more touch on those longer passes last week and I think we'll see more of those throws in future games.

letekro · 11-25-2008, 09:08 AM

I seem to remember him uncorking a bomb in that David Patten game against Indy, but he was inaccurate on long passes until 2004.

Sicilian · 11-25-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout

I heard an announcer state that he can throw just as hard as Brady but can't throw long. Well, if someone can sling it just as hard, they can pretty much throw it deep. There was a lot more touch on those longer passes last week and I think we'll see more of those throws in future games.

Not necessarily true. You can have a cannon on short passes where your muscle memory can keep the pass accurate. Throwing a deep ball has to be thrown hard AND be a lot more precise, because even a slight variation in arm angle can lead to a floater or an overthrown ball. Hell, with some weight training, any of us could whip the ball 70 yards eventually, but could we drop it into a trash can 70 yards down the field consistently? Definitely not.

PatsFan2 · 11-25-2008, 09:28 AM

It Took Tom Brady a couple of years to get that down to an exact science. It wasn't a strength for him in 2002.

PATS68 · 11-25-2008, 09:50 AM

This long ball thing, John Clayton is on this kick that Cassel can't throw the ball more than 10 to 15 yards down the field. Heard him on all night on espn radio and just watched him on Mike & Mike.

So Cassel is just supposed to throw it up to Moss even though there is safety over the top? That is a low % throw, and I rather see him take the 10yard pass to the open WR. 10 yards in my book moves the chains does it not?

Clayton goes and says that Cassel is throwing it 10 yards and Moss and Welker are extending the play, that is why he has all the yards the last few games.

So Clayton, help me out. So a nice high % throw for 10 yards that turns into 60 is somehow not as good as forcing a 60 yard deep ball for an INT?

How many teams are throwing 30 yard pass play every other play? I don't know many.

Also kind of lost here with the espn guys here. Farve somehow has gotten better by taking the 10 yard pass and letting his play makers make plays. He has gotten better by not throwing it deep and throwing it to the other team.

***BelichickFan*** · 11-25-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATS68

This long ball thing, John Clayton is on this kick that Cassel can't throw the ball more than 10 to 15 yards down the field. Heard him on all night on espn radio and just watched him on Mike & Mike.

Cassel can do it, he's just inconsistent. We all saw the perfect pass to Moss in the SF game and the perfect pass that Gaffney dropped in the Indy game. He can do it, he just needs to work on his consistency a lot.

FWIW, Cassel's YPA (which includes yards after catch) is 7.28, Brady's career high through 2003 was 6.9. I couldn't find stats on "length of throw" unfortunately.

swheeler23 · 11-25-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmo

Now I know that there are a bunch of Cassel vs Brady posts, but I am simply curious and on a fact finding 'mission' (and I guess a little too lazy too look into it myself because I don't remember - but I'm sure common knowledge among everyone here will suffice). What did Brady's long ball look like in his first year? I know Cassel has been slammed for "only hitting the short passes," but I was wondering about the difference in this area.

I know Brady has the downfield accuracy, but did he have to develop it?

Brady got better receivers.