Idle thoughts - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

Pats726 · 11-17-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

2. Another hot topic today was whether officials in the NFL should be made full time because of all the blown calls that have cropped up this season. I CAN'T DISAGREE with this proposal more...for the following reasons
a. First you would lose a SIGNIFICANT number for good respected and effective officials who WOULD NOT give up their day jobs to work full time. It would take SEVERAL years for the league to make up that kind of loss of experience
b. I don't believe that making the officials full time would improve the officiated that much IF AT ALL. Baseball and Basketball officials are ALL full time, year how often do we go nuts over some of THEiR calls.
c. The fact is not how bad the refs are, but HOW GOOD THEY ARE!. Think about it. In every game each team gets over 75-90 plays on offense (regular offense and in the kicking game. Conversly about 75-90 on the defensive side. On every one of these plays.there are 22 players creating 11 possible interactions (or more).
Now if you multiply the LOW side of this it would mean that in every game there are at LEAST 825 interactions between players that the refs have to make decisions on, and that doesn't include alignment and formation calls. If you multiply it by the 16 games each week, you have over 13,200 potential decisions. AND how many to they ACTUALLY get wrong each week. 2..3...4 Thats not a bad percentage..doncha think. If we give DON'T give them the benefit of the doubt and say its 5 errors each week that you mean the refs error rate would be 5 out of 13,200. I'd take that kind of error rate any day.

Given the speed of the game, the size of the players, etc., it shouldn't be a shock that they ever get it wrong. What we should be amazed at is how many time THEY GET IT RIGHT!!!

d. Finally why are we asking the officials who are human to be required to execute to a higher level than the players they are governing. I keep hearing that we should make the refs full time so that they can watch film, and keep up with the rules more. Thats BULL. Who practices more than pro football players. Who spends more time at their craft than Pro football coaches. Does they ever make any mistakes. HELL YEAH. At a lot higher rate than the refs. Its call being human.

BOTTOM LINE the guys who are refing the game KNOW THE RULES BETTER THAN ANYONE. Making them full time wouldn't improve the knowledge they ALREADY have. Already, every week they go through mountains of preparation. They don't just show up to the game.

HEY there are going to be mistakes. THere have ALWAYS been mistakes. ITS PART OF THE GAME. Don't change the game, especially when making refs full time WOULDN'T improve the quality of officiating in the FIRST PLACE.

I totally disagree with that..part timers?? That is almost a joke that that is still the case.
a----And you KNOW this because?? I always enjoy how someone states what would happen without ANY knowledge first hand...just speculates that officials would leave. Maybe...maybe not. you know what?? IF X, Y Z official cares more about his lawyering job or banking or whatever..then MAYBE he's REALLY not caring at all that much about the game. (Not to bring CoachB into it..but he always looks for people that love football...other interests??...LOL...) I would say fine with that..they are in a very small percentile of officials...maybe 120 or so...and I think if THAT is not what they want..fine.. NOW as far as losing experience..maybe that would happen..or maybe NOT as you think. There also might be other officials from college who might like that...so?? I am sure there will be many who would wish to become full time NFL officials. (More on the whole experience thing later..)
b-----And because other officials in another sport are NOT good as full time..that means what?? Reallly nothing at all. Compare apples and oranges..it doesn't work.
c----I don't buy stats like that and then Go WOW they are doing a great job!! Each official looks at certain things and there are always mistakes in games..but it has MORE to do with consistency than things not called..and such. And it is amazing that so many calls are right..that is good. And I will mention other things later..but I am not GLOWING in praise for officials in the NFL..BAD calls?? Many many more than just 4 5 a week..I would bet there are plenty that are not mentioned in every game..and as much of the calls is the non calls and the timing of them.
d---As to yout BS...what happened in the Jets game was PURE embarrassment to anyone who CARES about the game..Vrabel gets called for holding..while Law holds Moss and gets NO flag at all?? Are you going to tell me if the officials are given film training as to what IS holding and what is not..that this would still happen?? Apprently there are officials on the same crew who call things differently NOT EVEN other crews. Where is there any consistency?
Don't change the game?? Football HAS been changing over the many years did you not notice??? And the ONE PART that has not changed a bit except for replay has been the officials..They are still back in the middle 20th century with the way they have chains..that is so so silly... I would do a lot more to help officials..more with video and replays..even having some look at things ongoing throughout the game. Maybe games would be a BIT longer.10-15 minutes...but if it mean that much MORE calls were correct...I think fans would want that. And I do think having full time officials would improve things..at least they might be on the same page as far as what is or is NOT pass interference..what holding is and many other things..if officials look at and see many things I THINK they'll have chances to get it right in games. There might be other things they could do in the offseason to improve as well. But I also think technology COULD play a bit more into this...but NONE of this has been looked at by the NFL. Making officials full time is only part of it...making use of what they can learn in the offseason IS MORE what is important.
And as far as experience goes..get officials into a boot camp for a month of intensive study..meeting talking about the rules and interpretations and I guarantee things will be better..THAT IS if teh NFL is really committed to improvement in this area.
Look at teh embarrassment in the Steeler-Seahawk SB??? There were so many bad calls and non calls it was ridiculous?
It's part of the game...so one doesn't do anything to improve it?? Injuries are a part of the game...so you don't do anything to lessen it?? Pretty dumb...

PATRIOTSFANINPA · 11-17-2008, 02:12 PM

11-5 prediction is a bit on the homeristic side

Pittsburgh,Arizona,Buffalo at home and 1 of the 2 road games will be tough - Doubt we will win 4 of those which is what you need to be 11-5

9-7 and out of the playoffs or 10-6 and as the #5 or #6 seed is the best case scenerio at this time

SIMON_D · 11-17-2008, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATRIOTSFANINPA

11-5 prediction is a bit on the homeristic side

Pittsburgh,Arizona,Buffalo at home and 1 of the 2 road games will be tough - Doubt we will win 4 of those which is what you need to be 11-5

9-7 and out of the playoffs or 10-6 and as the #5 or #6 seed is the best case scenerio at this time

I agree with PATRIOTSSFANINPA; winning 4 of those is going to be a tall order.

Fencer · 11-17-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pats726

I always enjoy how someone states what would happen without ANY knowledge first hand

Ken is probably the last person in this forum you should lecture about lack of first-hand knowledge.

The worst you can accuse him of is extrapolating from a prior generation to the present.

Krugman · 11-17-2008, 02:30 PM

PFK,your "idle " thoughts are much deeper and analytical than mine,which makes for a very good post,thanks....

***Clonamery*** · 11-17-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pats726

I totally disagree with that..part timers?? That is almost a joke that that is still the case.
a----And you KNOW this because?? I always enjoy how someone states what would happen without ANY knowledge first hand...just speculates that officials would leave. Maybe...maybe not. you know what?? IF X, Y Z official cares more about his lawyering job or banking or whatever..then MAYBE he's REALLY not caring at all that much about the game. (Not to bring CoachB into it..but he always looks for people that love football...other interests??...LOL...) I would say fine with that..they are in a very small percentile of officials...maybe 120 or so...and I think if THAT is not what they want..fine.. NOW as far as losing experience..maybe that would happen..or maybe NOT as you think. There also might be other officials from college who might like that...so?? I am sure there will be many who would wish to become full time NFL officials. (More on the whole experience thing later..)
b-----And because other officials in another sport are NOT good as full time..that means what?? Reallly nothing at all. Compare apples and oranges..it doesn't work.
c----I don't buy stats like that and then Go WOW they are doing a great job!! Each official looks at certain things and there are always mistakes in games..but it has MORE to do with consistency than things not called..and such. And it is amazing that so many calls are right..that is good. And I will mention other things later..but I am not GLOWING in praise for officials in the NFL..BAD calls?? Many many more than just 4 5 a week..I would bet there are plenty that are not mentioned in every game..and as much of the calls is the non calls and the timing of them.
d---As to yout BS...what happened in the Jets game was PURE embarrassment to anyone who CARES about the game..Vrabel gets called for holding..while Law holds Moss and gets NO flag at all?? Are you going to tell me if the officials are given film training as to what IS holding and what is not..that this would still happen?? Apprently there are officials on the same crew who call things differently NOT EVEN other crews. Where is there any consistency?
Don't change the game?? Football HAS been changing over the many years did you not notice??? And the ONE PART that has not changed a bit except for replay has been the officials..They are still back in the middle 20th century with the way they have chains..that is so so silly... I would do a lot more to help officials..more with video and replays..even having some look at things ongoing throughout the game. Maybe games would be a BIT longer.10-15 minutes...but if it mean that much MORE calls were correct...I think fans would want that. And I do think having full time officials would improve things..at least they might be on the same page as far as what is or is NOT pass interference..what holding is and many other things..if officials look at and see many things I THINK they'll have chances to get it right in games. There might be other things they could do in the offseason to improve as well. But I also think technology COULD play a bit more into this...but NONE of this has been looked at by the NFL. Making officials full time is only part of it...making use of what they can learn in the offseason IS MORE what is important.
And as far as experience goes..get officials into a boot camp for a month of intensive study..meeting talking about the rules and interpretations and I guarantee things will be better..THAT IS if teh NFL is really committed to improvement in this area.
Look at teh embarrassment in the Steeler-Seahawk SB??? There were so many bad calls and non calls it was ridiculous?
It's part of the game...so one doesn't do anything to improve it?? Injuries are a part of the game...so you don't do anything to lessen it?? Pretty dumb...

Some rant. I can compare apples & oranges, though, and not even consume alcohol to do it.

Pats726 · 11-17-2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fencer

Ken is probably the last person in this forum you should lecture about lack of first-hand knowledge.

The worst you can accuse him of is extrapolating from a prior generation to the present.

Oh..really...sorry..in that case, he's got an ax to grind..which makes what he says even more BS in my opinion. a bit of conflict of interest?? No? How about how the officials messed up the end of the Pitts game? really KNOWING the rules?? Pathe Frankly..these little cliques of officials prorecting themselves do nothing to help themselves..One day the NFL will do something about officials...because they will be forced to as they will be losing credibility...Maybe this is the year...but more than not, Goodell will do zero. Let Perreira lie some more...and see nothing wrong as he usually does. It's a JOKE!!!

***Patjew*** · 11-17-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pats726

Oh..really...sorry..in that case, he's got an ax to grind..which makes what he says even more BS in my opinion. a bit of conflict of interest?? No? How about how the officials messed up the end of the Pitts game? really KNOWING the rules?? Pathe Frankly..these little cliques of officials prorecting themselves do nothing to help themselves..One day the NFL will do something about officials...because they will be forced to as they will be losing credibility...Maybe this is the year...but more than not, Goodell will do zero. Let Perreira lie some more...and see nothing wrong as he usually does. It's a JOKE!!!

Did you lose money on the Steelers game? I'm just curious because you seem so mad.